windows10 IOT and Raspberry Pi 4, it is a long time very silent

Carel van Leeuwen 16

When the will be an update of windows10 IOT for Raspberry Pi 4B?
Or is Windows 10 IoT now the same sad story as Microsoft Robotics Development Studio (MS-RDS) was?
It promesse something and it dies faster than It was started?

5 answers

Sean Liming 4,511 Reputation points

2021-03-13T17:00:08.893+00:00

This had been a big topic even in the old forum. Here is the answer in two parts:

Learning from past experience with Windows CE, Microsoft is working with IC vendors directly to perform the port of Windows to processors. Some vendors have been active and others have not. NXP has been the most active in getting Windows running on their ARM processors. BroadCom has had little interest in Windows running on Raspberry Pi, thus the lack of support. Having ran Windows IoT Core on Raspberry PI 2, the performance is very slow compared to other platforms, where Linux runs perfectly fine on the Raspberry Pi

After Microsoft dropped Windows CE for big Windows, and exclaimed to the world they will never componentize big Windows again (Windows Embedded), new leadership woke up to realize that it is counter to Microsoft cloud strategy to want to connect billions of devices to the cloud and not have a small foot print Windows solution available. Windows IoT Core was sold within Microsoft to support UWP and Azure connected device. The current architecture and feature implementation of Windows IoT Core is not a popular solution. Microsoft is working to merge IoT Core and IoT Enterprise together: https://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-to-combine-windows-10-iot-core-and-iot-enterprise-in-2021/. If you want to learn more of this future direction, there is a virtual event coming up that will provide some details: https://www.arrow.com/arrow-services/msembedded/windows-iot-virtual.
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2 people found this answer helpful.
SeanGahan 21 Reputation points

2023-05-09T21:46:18.6466667+00:00

Hello Sean!

I used to develop on the XP Embedded platform way back in the early-mid 2000’s. I saw you name and remember you from the old Microsoft Forums on XP Embedded. Actually, at one-point Micael Fostmire (not sure on the spelling of the las name) reached out to me to let me know they had nominated me for the MVP embedded devices. Since I’m not published, that didn’t go anywhere. Anyway, I just wanted to say hi, wish you well and glad to see you are still involved in the community. All the best!
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Carel van Leeuwen 16 Reputation points

2021-04-09T08:56:14.927+00:00

After my big disappointment with the MS-Robotics Development Studio, this is the second disappointment with Microsoft products for Robotics and embedded systems.
Promesses without any continuation in the deliveries, very sad.
Not trustful as base for use in educational programs.
This behaviour makes me a little bit angry from disappointment, I have lost my confidence in Microsoft in relation with embedded systems.

So I have change the OS for my Raspberry Pi's into LINUX/Raspberry OS.
And replace C# with C++ and Python.
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Mazlan Ibrahim 6 Reputation points

2021-04-09T08:39:06.33+00:00

2021 already.
I am still curious, did anyone successful install windows 10 iot in raspberry pi 4?
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Olof Lagerkvist 41 Reputation points

2021-05-18T21:54:46.067+00:00

Yes that is absolutely possible. I have only tried it to be able to debug some ARM64 applications though, but it worked. I used EFI loader from an open source EFI for Raspberry Pi project and a couple of experimental Windows drivers from WoR project. No support for graphics acceleration, no wifi, no bluetooth, no internal audio (usb audio works) etc, but the OS boots and works and I think that ethernet and USB support are now very stable.

Mazlan Ibrahim 6 Reputation points

2021-05-19T01:36:54.267+00:00

hello sir, did u realize windows 10 Iot is different than windows 10 ARM64?
Windows 10 ARM64 is not an issue, everybody know it compatible well with raspberry pi 4B.

Olof Lagerkvist 6 Reputation points

2021-05-19T04:49:11.917+00:00

Yes. They are not that much different though. IoT Enterprise simply have more tools for locking down user interfaces and select OS components to reduce the OS size, but essentially it is the same thing as Windows 10 Enterprise. Same kernel, same drivers and most OS components are available in the same way.
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Frank Odoom 1 Reputation point

2021-08-12T02:56:01.453+00:00

I am trying to run windows 10 IOT on a raspberry pi 4, I have an existing client with windows 6 CE Embedded solution and I have been talking to them to port to Windows 10 IOT core so we could develop the solution with UWP and C# but from what I am reading looks like the future for Windows 10 IOT is not so clear. I bought a pi4 to do a POC but looks like I am out of luck. Any directions, please?
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Olof Lagerkvist 41 Reputation points

2021-08-12T09:02:13.62+00:00

IoT Core is no longer supported, no new versions coming out and Raspberry Pi 4 was never supported. Although not yet officially supported, there are various ways to install full Windows 10 ARM64 or Windows 10 IoT Enterprise ARM64 tand it is getting better, however I would not say that it is ready for production use quite yet. It is missing some hardware support (wifi, for example). So I would say that the future for Windows IoT on Raspberry Pi is Windows IoT Enterprise, not IoT Core.

Sean Liming 4,511 Reputation points

2021-08-12T15:09:07.627+00:00

It has already been announced that Windows IoT Core and Windows IoT Enterprise are merging ... at least in concept: Microsoft to combine Windows 10 IoT Core and IoT Enterprise in 2021

I wouldn't do any new designs with Windows IoT Core even though it has support for 10 years. Windows on Raspberry Pi is slow. I would recommend Windows on an Intel Atom processor. Maybe an UP board, which is equivalent to a Raspberry Pi or an industrial platform like WinSystems SBC35-427.
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Carel van Leeuwen 16 Reputation points

2021-08-12T09:22:08.83+00:00

Conclusion:
Based on all the replies, Windows IoT for Raspberry Pi is after the MS-Robotics Development Studio, my the second very disappointment with Microsoft products for Robotics and embedded systems.
Promesses without any continuation in the deliveries, very sad.
Reason to switch to another OS for embedded products.
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Olof Lagerkvist 41 Reputation points

2021-08-12T09:40:04.513+00:00

Same thing with all development people did for Windows Mobile etc. I am not at all surprised though, there was very little interest in Windows IoT and Windows Mobile.

Sean Liming 4,511 Reputation points

2021-08-12T15:20:28.767+00:00

No exactly the same. There have been many products that have come an gone: .NET Micro Framework, SPOT Watches, Zune, Microsoft Band, Kinect, Windows CE, etc. Robotics Studio was just junk and was DOA.

From what I see, Windows IoT Core was a sales pitch within Microsoft to fill the gap with the ending of Windows CE and support UWP apps. UWP failed, and not too many people bought into IoT Core as a CE replacement, which technically it wasn't a CE replacement. Microsoft is going in a different direction for IoT. NXP i.MX8 processors are being supported., and Intel Architecture continues to be supported. Raspberry Pi will not be officially support for various licensing issue that are of Broadcom's doing not Microsoft.

Carel van Leeuwen 16 Reputation points

2021-08-12T16:34:37.627+00:00

I I don't agree about MS-Robotics Studio. I did several project with it. But without any notice the support dies and some months later the whole Microsoft research group was fired.
A lot of investments were lost.

Olof Lagerkvist 41 Reputation points

2021-08-12T16:47:55.603+00:00

Yes, there have been several things like this. I used to work in a large project where UI components were developed in the at the time promising Silverlight. Then, Microsoft stopped maintaining Silverlight and after a while we had to change to something and the choice was UWP. Which more or less went the same way after some time, although it was at least a bit easier to port that to other modern f to technologies.

I think that the root problem here is that technologies that gain very little interest and not appear enough useful to developers and not really bring anything new or substantially better to the development workflow sooner or later dies. Though, when it comes to Windows Mobile I actually think that it had a lot of potential and that it would have made UWP survive for longer if the OS and devices would have survived. But the competition in that field is tough.
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