MCSE vs. MCSA Certification

Host Guide_KenM
Welcome to today's TechNet Chat. Our topic is MCSE vs. MCSA Certification Chat. Questions, comments, and suggestions are welcome.

Host Guide_KenM
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Host Guide_KenM
Welcome to our Hosts today!

Host Guest_Eve_MS
Thanks for joining us in the chat session. We have several of our Certification Experts with us ready to take your questions.

Host Guest_Joel_MS
I am a track manager for the IT Professional certification track

Host Guest_Andy_MS
I'm a track manager for the IT Professional certification tracks (MCSA and MCSE)

Host Guest_Kari_MS
I'm a Marketing Manager within the Training & Certification team.

Host Guest_judith_MS
I'm a product Manager for the IT Pro Certification Track

Host Guest_Ginelle
I'm a Marketing Manager in the Training & Certification Group.

Host Guest_judith_MS
Q:
.Can anyone answer as to when the result from beta 70-214 will be available?

Host Guest_judith_MS
A:
Results for 70-214 should be available within 2 weeks. The exam will go live in mid-January.

Host Guest_Andy_MS
Q:
does only MSCE electives (IIS 4.0, and TCPIP) still allowed as electives for MSCE or MSCA

Host Guest_Andy_MS
A:
For our electives, the product (IIS) would have to run on the version with MCSE. For instance, with Windows 2000 MCSE, IIS4 would not count.

Host Guest_judith_MS
Q:
I don't see many people asking for MCSA rather they are asking for MCSE is Microsoft going to do anything to push that employers look for MCSA's?

Host Guest_Joel_MS
Q:
What is an MCSE trained to do that an MCSA is NOT?

Host Guest_Joel_MS
A:
The MCSA certification measures the individual's ability to implement, manage and maintain a networking environment. An MCSE is measured on their abilities to design, plan and perform high level maintenance in the same environment.

Host Guest_judith_MS
A:
Yes, we know that there is an awareness issue among hiring managers and have plans to address that through marketing campaigns. In addition, we know that we need to reach HR personnel, and are researching the best ways to make them aware of all MS cred

Host Guest_Kari_MS
Q:
How possible is it to "self-study" for these certs? I see courses costing over $10,000

Host Guest_Kari_MS
A:
Everyone learns differently - It certainly is possible to pass without taking Instructor-led training - other options include books, seminars, and best of all - on the job training. Check out http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mcp/mcse/requirements.asp

Host Guest_Andy_MS
Q:
Does it make sense to go MCSA then MCSE, in particular do all of the tests count for both certs?

Host Guest_Andy_MS
A:
It does make sense to go MCSA then MCSE because the skills for MCSE are a superset of the MCSA skillset. The 218 exam does count towards MCSE.

Host Guest_Ginelle
Q:
Is MCSA viewed as the equivalent of the MCP+I?

Host Guest_Ginelle
A:
MCP is still a valid certification, but the exams are no longer available. I'd recommend pursuing the MCSA.

Host Guest_Karl
Q:
Why the separation with .Net - I am understanding that MCSE/A will diverge after. Please explain. Thanks.

Host Guest_Karl
A:
The JTA results identified two different job roles so this is reflected in our exams

Host Guest_Joel_MS
Q:
How long is SMS2.0 going to be an elective for MCSA & MCSE as SMS3.0 is out?

Host Guest_judith_MS
Q:
the discontinuing of NT certification and the immediately push by Microsoft to have us move to 2000 certification was tough on alot of us. With .NET on the horizon, How long is Microsoft committed to the 2000 certification program?

Host Guest_Joel_MS
A:
There are several things we look at when retiring an elective, to include new releases of the product and it's ability to run on the platform which the certification is based upon. There are no current plans for retiring the SMS 2.0 exam at this time

Host Guest_judith_MS
A:
Microsoft is committed to all certification programs. We do not retire our certifications.

Host Guest_Ginelle
Q:
Is .net 2003 another name for the next version of MS Server software?

Host Guest_Ginelle
A:
I believe you're referring to Windows Server 2003, the next version of Windows Server.

Host Guest_Andy_MS
Q:
When .NET 2003 goes gold (is ready to ship), will there be a new certification track? and if so will there be an accelerated exam like the transition from NT to 2000?

Host Guest_Andy_MS
A:
We will announce our .NET certification exam plans (details) in January and the exams will be available some time after the .NET server products are available.

Host Guest_Kari_MS
Q:
Certifiable : Any specifics yet on the .net upgrade to MCSE?

Host Guest_Kari_MS
A:
We are working on this right now and will be announced in January 2003. Watch the MCP flash and the T&C website for more details www.microsoft.com/learning/

Host Guest_Joel_MS
Q:
What is the point of the creation of MCSA? (as related to MCSE)

Host Guest_Joel_MS
A:
The MCSA certification was created to allow individuals to certify on their abilities to implement, manage and maintain a networking environment. Customers told us that these skills are relevant to someone who is pursuing an entry path into the IT Pr

Host Guest_Joel_MS
A:
(continued) IT Professional field

Host Guest_Ginelle
Q:
If you already have your A+ and I have server and pro done... all I need is 70-218 and I get my MCSA... but how does MS know I have my A+??

Host Guest_Ginelle
A:
This link should give you the information you need to apply your CompTIA credential towards the MCSA. http://www.comptia.org/certification/mcsa/default.asp

Host Guest_Andy_MS
Q:
So the difference between MCSE and MCSA is the same as CCNP and CCDP?

Host Guest_Andy_MS
A:
Different technologies. Cisco deals with network infrastructure technologies (their technologies). We test on systems administrator tasks and systems engineer tasks. The administrator performs day-to-day tasks and the MCSE soes more planning and implem

Host Guest_Kari_MS
Q:
lbianchi : What is Microsoft doing to get the word out to hiring managers what the differences are for MCSA & MCSE and what are they doing to promote MCPs in general to their corporate clients?

Host Guest_Kari_MS
A:
Microsoft has been getting the word out via a variety of marketing & demand generation activities. We also heavy promote all our certs to our Microsoft Certified Partners as it is a program requirement for them and ensures they have the best people

Host Guest_Kari_MS
on staff to deliver corporate solutions. We also attend trade shows, PR, and create collateral to hand out to end customers via our MS Certified Technical Education Centers (MS CTECs). Of course, we'd always like to do more though.

Host Guest_Andy_MS
Q:
Why do we need to take 70-218 anyway?

Host Guest_Andy_MS
A:
The 218 exam was specifically designed to verify the skills of a systems administrator.

Host Guest_Joel_MS
Q:
Could you please unpack the statement "high level maintenance in the same environment". Would it be within the scope of the MCSA to design and implement a single site single domain MAD infrastructure?

Host Guest_Joel_MS
A:
Our Job Task Analysis shows that MCSEs typically perform design functions vs. MCSAs. MCSAs and MCSEs both identified with troubleshooting tasks, however MCSEs related with troubleshooting at the Teir 3 level vs. day-to-day maintenance.

Host Guide_KenM
For those new to the chat - Our topic is MCSE vs. MCSA Certification Chat.

Host Guest_Karl
Q:
Are there any plans in the future to allow MSCA or MSCEs to receive discounts from Microsoft's Support similar to What Novell does for it's CNEs? or any other advantage?

Host Guest_Karl
A:
We are in the process of reviewing our MCP benefits.

Host Guest_Ginelle
Q:
Where comes the exact difference between MSCA and MSCE...!

Host Guest_Ginelle
A:
I'd suggest reviewing the following link to find out which certification best reflects your goals http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mcp/mcsa/mcsa_mcse.asp

Host Guest_judith_MS
Q:
When is the next major upgrade to the Windows 2000 MCSE going to be?

Host Guest_judith_MS
A:
The next major upgrade will be announced in Jan. but won't occur for several months after that.

Host Guest_judith_MS
Q:
How old is the MCSA cert, could it be that the youth of the certification track is why it has not garnered the attention and respect from hiring managers?

Host Guest_judith_MS
A:
Excellent observation. It generally takes a minimum of 2 years for a new certification to be widely recognized (by mgrs and individuals).l

Host Guest_Karl
Q:
do you get free "technet" or discount if you have MCSA or MCSE?

Host Guest_Karl
A:
There is a 50% rebate or discount on a one year subscription on TechNet or TechNet+ for MCSE.

Host Guest_Kari_MS
Q:
ajeba : HOW MUCH WILL EACH EXAM COST FOR .NET MCSE/MCSA CERTIFICATION?

Host Guest_Kari_MS
A:
Exams cost $125 within the US - prices vary worldwide. For more info, please see http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mcpexams/faq/procedures.asp

Host Guest_Andy_MS
Q:
Andy_MS? How will Microsoft respond to the numerous complaints from people who have already started down the 2K path -- who feel cheated by MS's change of policy -- because they would have just waited for .NET?

Host Guest_Andy_MS
A:
It will have to be case-by-case once everyone sees the new track. We are providing a path to move from Windows 2000 certifications to Windows 2003 certification that make it easy to update from Windows 2000 MCSA or Windows 2000 MCSE.

Host Guest_Ginelle
Q:
MS has security?

Host Guest_Ginelle
A:
The primary security exam Microsoft offers is 70-214: Implementing and Administering Security in a Microsoft Windows 2000 Network which will be available in January 2003. Here's a link to the prep guide:
http://www.microsoft.com/learning/exams/70-214.asp

Host Guest_Joel_MS
Q:
There have been rumors of Microsoft adding specialties to the existing MCSE 2000 track, like security specililist or design specialist, any truth to this?

Host Guest_Joel_MS
A:
We are not looking to create specialties within the Windows 2000 certification track. In respect to security, we currently offer a breadth and depth of coverage on security topics within the credential. For future Microsoft platform releases we are

Host Guest_Ginelle
Q:
is there a charge on becoming a partner, What is the process?

Host Guest_Ginelle
A:
Yes, a charge applies for joining the Microsoft Certified Partner program. Attached is a link with full details on the benefits and requirements for joining. https://partner.microsoft.com/global/40014052

Host Guest_judith_MS
bry : xilef: It is possible to be an MCSE without being MCSA

Host Guest_judith_MS
A:
Yes, in the Windows 2000 track this is the case. You do *not* need to take 70-218 to become an MCSE.

Host Guest_Ginelle
Q:
Do you have any idea of the avg salary that a MCSE garners and that of an MCSA?

Host Guest_Ginelle
A:
Check oug MCP Magazine for a recent article on certification salaries.
http://mcpmag.com/salarysurveys/article.asp?EditorialsID=59&whichpage=3&pagesize=10

Host Guest_judith_MS
Q:
barjesh : Microsoft rates MSCA ranked no1. in IT industry than MSCE and it has 4 exams, not 7. Does this will make difference in job opportunities ..??? Reply Pl.

Host Guest_judith_MS
A:
The MCSA # 1 cert was ranted by indenpendent studies -- one completed by CertMag. This was a survey of individuals - who were exited about the new cert.

Host Guest_Kari_MS
Q:
Pete57 : are there any good books out there for .net server

Host Guest_Joel_MS
Q:
Do you plan for significant differences between the W2K exams, and the .NET Server exams? That is, will the skill set for a MCSE in .NET differ significantly than they do for W2K?

Host Guest_Joel_MS
A:
The latest Job Task Analysis we performed on the Systems Engineer and Systems Administrator roles shows distinct skills in the same environment. The Windows Server 2003 exams will measure skills aligned with technologies that are new to the Windows .N

Host Guest_Kari_MS
A:
Check out the "Find Training" search off the T&C website - this search returns both courses as well as MS Press books - http://www.microsoft.com/learning/. Also can check out the MS Press - http://www.microsoft.com/mspress/

**Host Guest_Karl
Q:**what are the pre-req's for the MCSA?

Host Guest_Karl
A:
Go to http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mcp/mcsa/requirements.asp for the MCSA pre-req's

Host Guest_Joel_MS
Q:
Why the separation with .Net - I am understanding that MCSE/A will diverge after. Please explain. Thanks.

Host Guest_Joel_MS
A:
The latest Job Task Analysis we performed on the Systems Engineer and Systems Administrator roles shows distinct skills in the same environment. The Windows Server 2003 exams will measure skills aligned with technologies that are new to the Windows .N

Host Guest_Joel_MS
A:
(continued) technologies that are new to the Windows Server 2003 product and those which are built upon the core Windows 2000 platform.

Host Guest_judith_MS
Q:
judith_MS : A. The next major upgrade will be announced in Jan. but won't occur for several months after that. Is that an upgrade to the Windows 2000 MCSE or an a change to .net MCSE?

Host Guest_judith_MS
A:
The announcement will provide Microsoft's Windows 2000 upgrade strategy

Host Guest_Ginelle
Q:
ginelle: the link you gave us for 70-214 does not work

Host Guest_Ginelle
A:
Try this link http://www.microsoft.com/learning/exams/70-214.asp")

Host Guest_Kari_MS
Q:
tbarr : vertigo, no extra exams needed to get from MCSE to MCDBA

Host Guest_Kari_MS
A:
It depends upon what exams you took for your MCSE electives -- the statement above certainly does not apply to all who hold MCSE cert

Host Guest_Kari_MS
.

Host Guest_Andy_MS
Q:
When will MS retire the 2000 exams as quite a few larger companines in the UK are still rolling out 2000 and I can't see them upgrading to .Net in the next few years?

Host Guest_Andy_MS
A:
There are currently no plans to retire the Windows 2000 exams.

Host Guide_KenM
We have about 15 minutes left in today's chat. We will continue to work on answers to questions. If you asked a question earlier that we missed, please go ahead and repost it now.

Host Guest_Ginelle
Q:
MS has security?

Host Guest_Ginelle
A:
Microsoft offers another security exam for design. View the syllabus at
http://www.microsoft.com/learning/exams/70-220.asp

Host Guest_Joel_MS
Q:
What are the chances of 70-210 being retired in the Jan 2003 update?

Host Guest_Joel_MS
A:
I can answer by saying the general policy with exam retirement is that when any exam is retired it will be available for one year after the announcement of its retirement.

Host Guest_Andy_MS
Q:
Wwhich complements MCSE/MCSA better, A+ or Network+?

Host Guest_Andy_MS
A:
The A+ certification validates PC skills. The Network+ certification validates basic networking skills. Both are needed prerequisite knowledge for systems administrators and systems engineers.

Host Guest_Karl
Q:
Will current MCSA's and MCSA get to write .NET exams at a "discount" if not for "Free"

Host Guest_Karl
A:
MCSA and MCSE upgrade paths to .NET certifications will be announced in January.

Host Guest_Ginelle
A:
Check oug MCP Magazine for a recent article on certification salaries.
http://mcpmag.com/salarysurveys/article.asp?EditorialsID=59&whichpage=3&pagesize=10")

Host Guest_Ginelle
A:
Check oug MCP Magazine for a recent article on certification salaries.
http://mcpmag.com/salarysurveys/article.asp?EditorialsID=59&whichpage=3&pagesize=10

Host Guest_Kari_MS
tbarr : -- sorry, there are nearly 100 people in this chat, sorry for not realizing the thread above

Host Guest_judith_MS
Jenneth :

Q: When will you have a WinXP/.net track MCSE certification? I'm probably skipping W2k certification completely.

Host Guest_judith_MS
A:
.NET Cert will be announced in early 2003.

Host Guest_Joel_MS
Q:
WHEN will MICROSOFT plans to relase Next Server Family edition like Win 2000 having 4 OS

Host Guest_Joel_MS
A:
Information around the Windows Server 2003 suite of products can be found at http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/default.mspx

Host Guest_Andy_MS
Q:
Will microsoft be making a exam available in part of the .NET track to show which MCSE's understand the licensing requirements?

Host Guest_Andy_MS
A:
We do have objectives in exams that validate that skill set, but it is not a large portion of any exam. The licensing changes do change after the products release, so it is hard to test those skills and keep the information current.

Host Guide_KenM
We are going to have to wrap up this chat in about 10 minutes. We're going to answer a few more questions, though. If there's anything we may have missed, please re-ask it now.

Host Guest_judith_MS
Q:
NecroMonkey : I have my A+ and Network+ and passed 70-210 and 215. I am having trouble with 216. Should I go with the MCSE or gor for MCSA

Host Guest_judith_MS
A:
This really depends on the job you perform. If you have design aspects to your role, then perhaps you should focus on the MCSE exams.

Host Guest_Kari_MS
Q:
AlohaJoel : Is there any plan to allow Gold partners the ability to buy exam vouchers at a discount to help the students that have come through their training center?

Host Guest_Kari_MS
A:
Thanks Joel - we're not aware of something right now but will pass this onto our Business Development team and Certified Partner team to see if something exists or is in development. Thx

Host Guest_judith_MS
Q:
tbarr: What is microsoft doing to combat MCSE's who are dumpers/crammers and to shut down sites they help people with little real knowledge finish these exams?

Host Guest_judith_MS
A:
We have an anti-piracy person on staff who works with Microsoft Legal to address these issues. Look for an article on our Train/Cert site at the end of Dec.

Host Guest_Joel_MS
Q:
Joel_MS: when you say "available", surely this means just available to take - it may no longer count towards higher certs?

Host Guest_Joel_MS
A:
I think that the best answer to your question is that the details of the upcoming certification track will be released in January 2003.

Host Guest_Andy_MS
Q:
As I'm considering starting out, my main concern is that with the increased focus on XP/.NET in the Jan update, 70-210 will be deprecated in favour of 70-270

Host Guest_Andy_MS
A:
210 is for Windows 2000 Professional and 270 is for Windows XP. Both operating systems are popular and in use at companies around the world, so I think that the 210 exam will stay relevant.

Host Guide_KenM
Three minutes left. Anything else?

Host Guest_Karl
Q:
Where should one send links to illegal test content found on the Internet?

Host Guest_Karl
A:
Send email to MCPhelp@microsoft.com

Host Guest_Kari_MS
Q:
okey: Which books do you recommend users assist in their certification endeavours, please be as objective as possible?

Host Guest_Kari_MS
A:
The comments from the rest of users in this chat are helpful as well -- they seem to reiterate our thoughts as well (Alnico : .. I prefer MSPRESS for MS stuff...) Check out the "Find Training" search off the T&C website - this search returns both courses as well as MS Press books - http://www.microsoft.com/learning/. Also can check out the MS Press - http://www.microsoft.com/mspress/

Host Guest_judith_MS
DethKnite : joel, judith, andy, kari, ginelle, karl, eve and ken thank you very much for having this chat, you should have these type of chats more often to connect to the customers (us)

Host Guest_Joel_MS
Q:
Will the XP test count on the .NET Track?

Host Guest_judith_MS
A:
DethKnite - thanks for feedback!

Host Guest_Joel_MS
A:
This is a bit of a repeat, but again, I think that the best answer to questions about which exams will be included is that the details about the upcoming certification track will be released in January 2003.

Host Guest_Ginelle
Q:
As a student which is better as starting..MSCA or MCSE.. Specify in Detail

Host Guest_Ginelle
A:
If you're new to the IT field, I'd recommend starting with the MCSA as it's more attainable and flexible. Then once you've spent some time in this role, you could consider continuing on to the MCSE credential.

Host Guest_Andy_MS
Q:
I have my A+ and Network+ and passed 70-210 and 215. I am having trouble with 216. Should I go with the MCSE or go for MCSA

Host Guest_Andy_MS
A:
The 216 is generally considered the toughest exam in the track by the people going though the track. The SA is for administrators and is a great entry point to get a job and gain experience to complete the SE certification track.

Host Guest_Joel_MS
Q:
listing for .NET exams pleeeese

Host Guest_Joel_MS
A:
This is a bit of a repeat, but again, I think that the best answer to questions about which exams will be included is that the details about the upcoming certification track will be released in January 2003.

Host Guest_judith_MS
Q:
thekev7 : has anyone seen companies looking for MCSA's, all I see is MCSE jobs

Host Guest_judith_MS
A:
Yes, I conduct searchs on Monster.com and have noticed an increase in reqeusts for MCSAs.

Host Guest_Eve_MS
Thanks to all who took the time to participate in today's chat. Watch the Training & Certification Web site for the next scheduled chat: http://www.microsoft.com/learning/.

Host Guide_KenM
Thanks for joining us today and thanks for the questions. It's time for us to go now. You'll be able to find the transcript of this chat soon on the TechNet Web site at http://www.microsoft.com/technet/community/chats/trans/default.mspx Please see the chats schedule for upcoming topics.

Host Guest_Kari_MS
Q:
Jacco : Ok sorry, I can't seem to find the link that someone made to the Salary guides. Anyone have it again for me?

Host Guest_Kari_MS
A:
www.mcpmag.com