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JerryPurvis avatar image
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JerryPurvis asked ·

Losing NTFS File Permissions

We have one file that is causing us some problems with permissions on our file share server. The user is running Windows 10 1909 and Office 2016. When goes to save a particular Excel spreadsheet, it makes her the owner, and erases all permissions the file may have, even though inheritance is still enabled.

The only permissions she has on the file itself under normal circumstances are as follows:

Traverse folder / execute file
List Folder / read data
Read attributes
Read extended attributes
Create files /write data
Create folders /append data
Write attributes
Write extended attributes
Delete subfolders and files
Read permissions


She does NOT have permission to change permissions or take ownership, and yet that is exactly what happens every time she makes changes to the file and saves it. I've even checked her effect access to make sure there are not any weird conflicts, and the permissions are exactly as the should be.


Update (3/4/21): We are seeing this more and more, and so far, it has only affected Excel spreadsheets. That appears to be the only common factor. We are using on-prem Office as well, with a mixture of 2013, 2016, and 2019. But there appears to be no pattern other than it only affects excel spreadsheets.... so far.

The only workaround I have found is to just have the end-user completely rebuild their excel spreadsheet from scratching, saving it directly to the network share. I will fix the permissions on the bad file so they can copy data, and then rename the old file. Otherwise, no fix has been found since this was first reported in September

windows-server
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Hello @JerryPurvis,

Greetings!

How are things going on your end? Please keep me posted on this issue.
If you have any further questions or concerns about this question, please let us know.
I appreciate your time and efforts.

Best Regards,
Daisy Zhou

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Hello @JerryPurvis,

I am just writing to see if this question has any update. If anything is unclear, please feel free to let us know.
Thanks for your time and have a nice day!

Best Regards,
Daisy Zhou

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DaisyZhou-MSFT avatar image
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DaisyZhou-MSFT answered ·

Hello @JerryPurvis,

Thank you for posting here.

We can see the description of the way that Excel saves files based on the following link.

25179-excel.png

Description of the way that Excel saves files
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/814068/description-of-the-way-that-excel-saves-files

Meanwhile, the user who last edit the excel file will be the file owner.

We should configure user permissions on this Excel's upper level folder directory instead of this Excel itself.

Hope the information above is helpful. If anything is unclear, please feel free to let us know.


Best Regards,
Daisy Zhou


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JerryPurvis avatar image
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JerryPurvis answered ·

This does not solve the issue. The shared folder is already setup so that whatever is saved in the folder and sub-folders inherits the permissions set in the upper levels.

The file itself even retains the setting to inherit permissions, but it does not inherit ownership nor permissions. I first have to reset the owner, then I have to to reset inheritance just to get it to take the permissions. I've even forced inheritance to be applied from upper-level folders, and it still loses permissions and ownership rights.

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Hello @JerryPurvis,

Thank you for your update.

Does all the files or only this Excel file under this specific folder has such issue?
Only this Excel file is affected by one user we mentioned or by all the users or groups on the Security of the Excel file?

We can check the permissions about this user or user group with this user of its upper folder.

26404-per111.png


Best Regards,
Daisy Zhou


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JerryPurvis avatar image
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JerryPurvis answered ·

It's only this file, and I've checked all the permissions. The file SHOULD be inheriting permissions from the folder it is residing in, and they are set correctly. It just happened again last night. When it happens, and I go to the folder above, and check the box that says "replace all child object permission entries with inheritable permission...." on that specific file, it tells me "access is denied". Then I have to go into the file itself, and manually change the owner back to the original owner, the I have to disable inheritance, and then enable inheritance to get it to pick the permissions back up" But even if I do it the other way AFTER changing owner, where I recheck the box "replace all child object permissions..." from the parent folder, it still eventually loses ALL permissions again.

UPDATE: I might add that even the user who is working in the file will literally lose all access WHILE they are working in the file. So when they go to save the file, it tells them they do not have permission, even though they are now the new owner for some reason.

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Hello @JerryPurvis,

Thank you for your update.

I am sorry for the late reply.

We can remove the permissions about user or user group on this Excel or its upper folder, then readd them to see if it helps.

If it does not work, becase only this Excel has such issue, we can recreate a new Excel file and copy all the contents in the problematic Excel to the new Excel file.




Best Regards,
Daisy Zhou

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JerryPurvis avatar image
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JerryPurvis answered ·

I have already tried that suggestion removing the user and the group and re-adding them, to no avail. I tried making a copy of the file, still the same issue. Give me some time to try to create the new file from scratch and test that, as it's a xlsm file, and I will get back to you. I am seriously scratching my head at this one lol.

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Hello @JerryPurvis,

Thank you for your update.

I am looking forward to your reply. Thank you for your time and efforts.


Best Regards,
Daisy Zhou


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Hello @JerryPurvis,
I just want to confirm the current situations.


Please feel free to let us know if you need further assistance.


Best Regards,
Daisy Zhou

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JerryPurvis avatar image
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JerryPurvis answered ·

Still waiting to get the new XLSM file setup, but it probably won't be for a couple weeks at most.

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JerryPurvis avatar image
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JerryPurvis answered ·

So I created a new excel spreadsheet for the user, but one thing I noticed is that when I saved it directly to the file share, it made me the owner, instead of inheriting the owner from the parent permission. This is one of the same issues she has with the old file. The issue is that neither one of us has permission to change the owner, so I'm not sure what's going on.

These are the permissions we have set for the parent folder

33673-image.png


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CharlieCaldwell-0927 avatar image
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CharlieCaldwell-0927 answered ·

I am having this exact same issue for a little while now. There are a few .xlsm files that when they get saved, all permissions are stripped from the file. In order to fix I have to retake ownership of the file and pus the inheritence down again from the top level folder. The users in question do not have full control hence the ability to change permissions. I was able to duplicate the issue with a test account on a win10 vm. I'm really scratching my head and I can't find any reason for it.

As a test today I have removed full control from all account /group that has access to the file.

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I ended up rebuilding the file from scratch, and that seems to have fixed it. I gave myself R/W permissions to the share in question, and while building the excel spreadsheet, just saved it directly to the location. I haven't had a complaint since.

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Xav38100-4039 avatar image
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Xav38100-4039 answered ·

Hello, I'am having exactly the same issue since last september...It's going crazy! We reposition the NTFS rights after having reappropriated the file. Is there any solution?

Thanks

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I ended up rebuilding the file from scratch, and that seems to have fixed it. I gave myself R/W permissions to the share in question, and while building the excel spreadsheet, just saved it directly to the location. I haven't had a complaint since.

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Xav38100-4039 avatar image
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Xav38100-4039 answered ·

For you, it would only come from the Excel file....
Like you, the problems appeared in September. We have been handling Excel files for years, these files have been present for weeks in directories on the shares. Why this failure precisely in September 2020?
And above all, why is the description of the problem exactly the same?
I am convinced that the problem lies in the saving of the Excel file after modification. Why these few files, when there are thousands of others certainly much larger and more complex...

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I agree. My problems didn't start until September, and it only affects random excel files. Have you tried rebuilding one of the excel files from scratch, working out of the problem share? That's what did it for me. Obviously, that's not a realistic fix, but it is a reasonable work around.

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CharlieCaldwell-0927 avatar image
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CharlieCaldwell-0927 answered ·

@Xav38100-4039 Yes the same for me however as mysteriously as it started the problems have all seemed to go away. I opened a paid support ticket with Microsoft and was able to duplicate the problem easily with the initial technician. She escalated the issue to an advanced team but by the day i got them on the phone and tried to show them, the problem disappeared and I am no longer able to duplicate it. I very much suspect a Microsoft patch created this problem back in august/sept and they must have fixed it in the latest round of updates. I hope that performing all updates for November fixes your issue also.

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